Questions from the Live Reveal and Table Talk for the book “Overcoming Barriers for Women of Color in STEM Fields: Emerging Research and Opportunities
Panelists: Dr. Sibrina Collins, Dr. Angela White, Ms. Tyresa Jackson, Dr. Pamela M. Leggett-Robinson, Dr. Sherine Obare, Dr. Nichole Powell, Dr. Pamela E. Scott-Johnson, and Dr. Christine Grant
The following questions were asked during the event via chat, Q&A, or submitted via email. The panelists thank everyone for these thoughtful questions.
Question I
Lab environments can be severely unsupportive for WOC, especially Black women, in STEM as we are subjected to bullying, microaggressions, neglect, discrimination, being overlooked for positions, exclusion from social circles and are seen as hostile or incompatible with the lab/PI when we try to stand up for ourselves. What advice could you give on navigating a toxic lab environment that we are incapable of leaving? What advice could you give on preventing these situations as we establish ourselves in new labs?
Dr. Scott-Johnson: Increase your network and find people that can affirm your work. Look for what value you can contribute. The wider your network, the better off you are. Make sure your work has the level of integrity that you intend for it to have. Some advice both Pamela LR and I gave to a young woman we co-mentored was -- do not stay in an environment that is going to harm your health in the long run. It’s not worth it. If the environment is so toxic that you find yourself with health challenges, it is not worth it. That network will help you and allow you to move forward. Networks beyond your institution will allow you to leverage yourself out of that environment. You must remember, you are the most important person in your life, because you impact those around you.
Dr. Obare: In moving to a new lab environment, survey the environment to make sure it is a welcoming environment. Ask questions, do a climate survey. Look at the history of the lab - how long does it take to graduate, do people of color graduate at the same rate as their white counterparts? Whatever you do, don’t tolerate the abuse. Staying in an unhealthy environment is toxic to the mind; it's toxic to your ability to succeed. You have to get out of it. Also, leaving and going to a healthy environment is not a failure. It is important we remember that.
Dr. Grant: I agree with my colleagues. A toxic situation is not good. I had a lot of allies and mentors in my locale that helped me navigate through some potentially toxic situations. But if you don’t and you are getting beaten up, you should consider leaving. Connect with your BOD and your professional society.
Question II
How do you see WoC in STEM impacting the classroom? What suggestions would you give to educators to increase the capacity for young Black and brown women to enter STEM majors?
Dr. White: Make the learning experience culturally relevant for Black and Brown girls and also send constant messages to them concerning their capacity. Educators must consider what is nestled in the model of science identity that is operationalized --recognition, competence, and performance. Educators must give acknowledgment to their (Black and Brown girls) and who they are as science individuals. If they do reach a barrier in their learning, it is often contributed to an academic deficiency. So you have to counter those messages with messages of positivity and show them images of other Black women who are doing math and science. Give opportunities to perform and match them with peers that look like them.
Dr. Collins: One approach that I have used to engage students in STEM is to use pop culture and movies. Two years ago, we published a paper entitled “Black Panther, Vibranium and the Periodic Table,” which received a good response from social media. One point we make in the paper is that Marvel Studios Black Panther provides an opportunity to have a national conversation about our contributions to STEM. The character Shuri is a powerful example that resonates with young people. See the link here: https://pubs.acs.org/doi/10.1021/acs.jchemed.8b00206
Question III
When did you decide to pursue a career in STEM? Were their particular organizations or programs involved in that help you navigate to be successful in STEM?
Dr. Collins: I began my college career in community college and enrolled in a chemistry class for non-science majors. I thought the class was easy and earned an A, which gave me the confidence that I could do the work. I said to myself that if this is all there is to chemistry, I will just be a chemist! The classes got harder, but I stuck with it. I love dimensional analysis and stoichiometry problems.
Question IV
What advice would you give a junior faculty on how to navigate tenure-track and still have a voice?
Dr. Obare: The tenure track process is no easy process. There are forces working in your favor and those working against you. It is important to understand the culture of your department and institution. a) What does your discipline value? b) What does your department value? c) What does your Dean value? d) What does your university value? Make sure people that are making the tenure decisions are aware of your accomplishments. Figure out who your friends and enemies are. Be aware of WHERE people are trying to direct you. Listen to what people are saying. It is also important to find networks outside your institution and collaborate with those individuals.
Question IV
What advice would you give a junior faculty on how to navigate tenure-track and still have a voice?
Dr. Obare: The tenure track process is no easy process. There are forces working in your favor and those working against you. It is important to understand the culture of your department and institution. a) What does your discipline value? b) What does your department value? c) What does your Dean value? d) What does your university value? Make sure people that are making the tenure decisions are aware of your accomplishments. Figure out who your friends and enemies are. Be aware of WHERE people are trying to direct you. Listen to what people are saying. It is also important to find networks outside your institution and collaborate with those individuals.
Question V
This may be a question for Angela White if she has time later. My PI (a white man) describes himself as a feminist and has been very supportive to my white, female labmates. As his first black, female student, I received little to no support and was subjected to continuous acts of discrimination (by him and others) that he was not capable of acknowledging. Five years later, I realized that this disparity was due to his inability to be intersectional in his feminism and understanding the barriers that would be placed in front of me because I am a woman and also black. Keeping the power dynamic in mind, how should undergraduate and graduate students navigate these situations? As someone that is out of his lab, how could I engage in this conversation to protect future women of color?
Dr. White: The thing you have to keep in mind is that there is a difference between being a feminist and a Black Feminist. He may identify as a feminist, in that he utilizes his power and privilege to support the advancement of women; however, his propensity for doing so is for white women because he identifies with them along the line of race. He does not acknowledge intersectionality which is the crux of Black Feminist Thought. According to Patricia Collins and many Black feminists, we can leverage the fact that we are outsiders within. This is what we experiences in these STEM spaces that are primarily occupied by white males. First, you have to realize that you occupy a very special and unique position. This position as an outsider within makes you more sensitive to the patterns that perpetuate the status quo in science. These patterns are difficult for insiders (white males and white women) to see. Your position creates this tension that may be painful and uncomfortable. It causes some to leave the field and remain outsiders. For some it causes them to suppress aspects of who they are to fit in. It is important for undergraduate students and graduate students to not relinquish the unique aspects of who they are because that will rob the field of much needed diversity and freshness. Creating a strong support system/network of Black women to discuss the challenges faced within these spaces provides a mechanism to successfully navigate the path. Additionally, it is important to address the feeling of isolation as an outsider within. The isolation experienced by Black women is different from that experienced by Black males in the same space. Again, creating safe spaces to reflect on negative experiences, voice feelings of isolation, self-care, develop healthy responses to adversity, and nurture a science identity that overcome negative external influences due to the intersection of race and gender.
Question VI
I am currently a postdoc and wonder whether I can become a professor one day, as there is no Black woman in a faculty position in my subfield at all. What would you recommend my 1st steps to be? What would be your advice(s)?
Dr. Leggett-Robinson: Just because there is no Black woman in a faculty position in your subfield doesn’t mean you can’t be the first. This may be your opportunity to change the landscape. You will have to tap into the mentors (Black and non-Black) to help you navigate. Be sure however, this is the career you want. It is very rewarding but not easy. As a postdoc, be sure you are well published and have some experience in grant submission. Both are important as a faculty member. Also, have a general idea of the type of institution (PWI, HSI, MSI, HBCU, R1, R2, 2yr) you want to work and the geographic location (if you are tied to one) you prefer. Be sure you have some teaching experience --as a TA or a guest lecturer. If not, then work to get this experience.
Question VII
Can you also address mid-career tenure and full professors who have really neglected things that are important to them because of the hunt for tenure process. How do you now find yourself and work on projects beyond technical that are also important to you. Such as seeding the path way for black children, women and men in STEM and working on racial justice, and equity in the academy.
Dr. Leggett-Robinson: You have to be true to yourself. At the end of the day, you have to decide what works for you and what doesn’t. Even as an Associate professor, I chose projects that I was most interested in. Now as a Consultant, I continue to work on projects that only align with my mission and purpose. Self care is also important in our purpose. Your BOD, social circles, and professional circles can help you. Sometimes we become so focused on getting that thing --for faculty it is tenure and promotion, that we throw caution to the wind and give up things that are often close to our hearts. Typically however, when we obtain tenure and promotion OR move up the ranks, we find ourselves to be equally as miserable as we were before. I would highly suggest you take a moment to step back and reflect on your health, your environment, mentors, and BOD. It is in this time that you can refocus your efforts and determine how you want to spend the next half of your professional life.
Dr. Grant: On a more light-hearted note, during COVID, I got my bike out. I have a garden in front, and I started playing the piano. These things are important. I am rediscovering myself.
Dr. Scott-Johnson: We spend a lot of time at work, either at the bench or working on projects. In addition to our family, many of us have spiritual lives and we may have civic lives. All of these benefit from our professionalism --from the skills and the commitments we have in the workplace. Being able to share in these spaces also broaden your perspective, not to put all your eggs in one basket, and allows you to be your authentic self.
Question VIII
Many of the panelists have mentioned focusing on your purpose. What advice do the panelists have for young professionals that are still trying to determine their purpose?
Dr. Scott-Johnson: Understand the gift you bring to the world. Your purpose is not always apparent. Continue to ask yourself, what is your “why”. As Christine mentioned, use journaling to observe the strands. Look at the activities that you have been involved with overtime, there is a common theme that is not equated to a title but to the way in which you are grounded in being. It is in the still moments that you find out who you are and how these strands are related. Continue to think about those common threads and those things you continue to put your time and effort toward.
Dr. White: Placing emphasis on what Pam Scott Johnson said. Purpose is not static, but it is always unfolding. The things you have done and been drawn to, they give you a glimmer of what you should do at that time. Aspectos of purpose takes place over time in each season, forever unfolding before us.
Additional input from an event participant: You should have some career goals and a group of folks who can mentor you in this realm. It could be someone close to you or it could be someone who is senior to you. Your purpose may change over time. It does not need to be a HUGE GRAND purpose. Your purpose in this particular season of your life may be one thing and it is certainly different than what it was a few years ago.
Question IX
Many of you have mentioned that people have proven themselves to be your supporters through their actions. What have been the most memorable or impactful actions your supporters and/or allies have taken?
Dr. Leggett-Robinson: My supporters (sponsors) have assisted me in searching for employment, opening doors, and sometimes pushing me through. A few memorable actions from supporters were 1) helping me to land my first job at Tuskegee University, 2) opening my Consulting business, and 3) reminding me of my voice from outside the academy. Each of these moments were not solicited by me. Each of these women, truly saw something in me that I didn’t see but encouraged me to do the very thing they saw.
Additional input from an event participant: They work on your behalf without even being asked. They have spoken up for me in ways that I did not know that I needed. They have checked on me during situations that I knew I needed help.
Question X
The panel talked a lot about mentors. I am an undergraduate chemistry major at an HBCU and I don’t have one. How do I find one?
Dr. Obare: A mentor is someone who will provide care about your well-being, your education, and your future. You should strive to have a few mentors (at least 5); some of whom may be able to advise you on success as a chemist, but others that can also just be helpful in various aspects of life. Ask your academic advisor if your school has any formal mentoring programs. In some cases, senior undergraduates, or graduate students serve as mentors. Also, if there is a professor who you feel can offer guidance, they can be informal mentors. Some mentors emerge in one's life without being given the title of a mentor, or without there being a formal arrangement of a mentor-mentee relationship. Find out who you feel gives good advice and meet them regularly (maybe once every month) and once you have established a good relationship with them, see if they will take you on as a mentee.
Question XI
What exactly is a non-linear STEM career? It was mentioned a few times I think.
Dr. Leggett-Robinson: A non-linear STEM career is one that does not follow the prescribed trajectory for most people. It can be a late start, changing careers, or returning after a break. Some examples are:
1) A woman takes time off between undergraduate and graduate to pursue a career in sales. Didn’t like it and decided to attend (start) graduate school at the age of 35. More than likely, she will be a bit older than her colleagues.
2) A woman obtains a Ph.D. in STEM and works at a chemical engineering firm. While working at the firm, she develops a love for the patent process. She decides to leave the firm, attend law school and becomes a patent attorney.
3) A woman obtains a Ph.D. in microbiology. She works as a lecturer at a major university. While working as a lecturer, she establishes a non-profit organization to teach informal science in rural communities by way of farming. After 4 years, she resigns from her university position and works full-time as a consultant for rural school systems to establish informal science education programs (via her non-profit organization).
4) A woman graduates with a BS in chemistry and takes a job in hospitality. After 5 years, she returns to graduate school to obtain a MS in food chemistry and takes additional courses in international business. She now works for an international food company that focuses on the improvement of food preservation techniques.
5) A woman graduates with her Ph.D. and enters into higher education. After 15 years, she leaves to start her consulting career as a STEM Coach.
Question XII
While the Table Talk was very enlightening, it was disheartening to learn of the trauma Balck women continue to face in STEM fields. How do you “get over” the trauma and what impact has it had on you?
Dr. Collins: Honestly, I don’t think you “get over” trauma, but with healing, you are able to put your past in perspective. It is hurtful to be dismissed from a job or not get the promotion. The best way to move forward when possible is to seek other opportunities, where you can be your authentic self and your voice and contributions are valued. This is hard work. If you have a little success in your new role, you will feel really good about yourself. Success is awesome revenge! (Smile)
Question XIII
I really liked the comments regarding “your authentic self”. But as a new assistant professor how can I be my authentic self if I want to obtain tenure?
Dr. Scott-Johnson: When I talk about being one's authentic self, I really mean how do you define yourself. What are your characteristics? Is your life aligned with your actions? I am by nature a collaborative person. I like teams and like working with others. So much of the academy promotes a lone ranger environment. But in reality, no one does anything by themselves. There may not be a group of five or six. It may be one or two others that work with us. I also find that I work best when I am spiritually grounded. That usually happens for me with daily prayer and weekly services, including the activities I do for my church during the week. I have been in environments that are atheists or where folks think of themselves as gods. I remind myself that my value is not solely grounded in their opinions of me, and that I had value before my interactions with them. What I am saying is take stock of who you are. Write down your values, how these have helped you navigate, and how you will manage your thinking and behavior within the context of these values. Listen to that small voice.
Question XIV
How and when do you find your purpose? What happened to help you find your purpose?
Dr. Scott-Johnson: Simon Sinek is a thought leader, who has an interesting video called Finding your Why. I would like to say that this is a process and not a simple destination. Exam what is important to you. To what are you drawn? What draws your attention? What affirms your being and brings you joy? For each answer, continue to probe..deeper and deeper. What brings you deep sadness and stops you emotionally, spiritually, and cognitively? When you are most productive, what are you doing? How do you gauge the impact of that work? Is the impact on others? Yourself? How do you feel? What are you thinking? What do others say is your gift? Have you asked them? Since I am a person who believes in professional and personal development, I have used several workshops and coaches that continue to help me focus on my purpose. I have participated in educational programs of Landmark Education (Forum; Advance Course; Seminars), work with the coaching team supported to PKAL; continue to read books.
Dr. Leggett-Robinson: Purpose can take the form of many different career paths. However, it is that one thing that motivates you to get up in the morning or as I say, “you will do for free”. If you think back on those things you truly enjoy doing and DO well, more than likely, you will find your purpose there. However, the purpose is not static (as Angela White mentioned). You have to be open and flexible to where it leads you. For me, I discovered my purpose when I began to define myself --not by title but by what I enjoyed doing. I enjoy developing people. When I looked back on everything I had done, my most enjoyable moments were when I was “developing people”. But this didn’t always look the same. Sometimes it was serving as a professor, a research advisor, a department chair, or a STEM Coach. I found through program development, management, and evaluation, I also develop people. As a consultant, I help organizations and institutions develop people through projects and programs.
Question XV
What should undergrads focus on when trying to expand their resume, other than research?
Dr. Obare: Other than just participating in a research project, the outcome of the research should be highlighted. These outcomes can either be -
Attending conferences and presenting the work that was done. The presentation can either be a poster for an oral talk. When trying to determine what conferences to go to, look for conferences that are the premier organization in your discipline (for example, if you are a chemist, you want to present your work at a conference of the American Chemical Society)
Being a co-author on a publication (These are extremely important). The more publications the better.
In addition, holding a leadership role in a science organization demonstrates initiatives
Academic awards and honors, especially in science are critical.
Question XVI
When is a good time to stop and look at a different STEM path? When do you know to give up/look in a different direction?
Dr. Obare: You stop when you no longer have the passion for the discipline, and that your passion is taking you in a different direction. Remember - each discipline that you decide to pursue will have its sets of challenges. What keeps you going through those challenges will be the passion that you have for the field. Once that is gone, it is no longer worth pushing through. If you still have passion, but the environment is not conducive to you, find an alternative university to pursue your goals.
Dr. Leggett-Robinson: Understanding your gifts and talents is key as well as your aptitude. Truly coming to grips with your purpose--your why is important here. STEM paths take many forms. No one path is perfect. Be introspective about your skill set, your aptitude, and go from there. Sometimes the best STEM field is the one less traveled.